I know I started this blog to answer one very important question. Am I in an abusive relationship?
The question really boils down to is this a consensual relationship?
Many of you were generous enough to provide comments and I did read all the comments and there seems to be a question of did I imply my consent? That is a good question.
As I have pondered the comments (and thanks to everyone who comments, you definitely make this blog a lot more interesting than I could myself) I realize that I myself am not sure of the answer so there is no way anyone reading the blog can know (mind reader or not)
I was speaking with a friend of mine who was a lawyer about a burglary near us that had us all concerned. I incorrectly said "so and so's place was 'robbed'" and he corrected me and said, no robbery is the unlawful taking of property by 'force'. He then explained that larceny was the unlawful taking of property without force and that burglary was unlawfully entering a premise for the purpose of committing a crime (at least where I live, laws may vary where you are) where almost 99% of the time that crime is larceny. I found the discussion fascinating and figured this play on words is why lawyers make the big bucks. Anyway I became fascinated with the legalese and we continued discussing various scenarios when I presented the following scenario, "so I am walking down the street and someone comes up to me and says, 'give me your wallet' and I give him my wallet. Did he commit a crime?"
He replied, "probably, why did you give him your wallet?"
"Well, I guess its because I was unsure what he would do if I didn't give it to him. So I guess he committed larceny then?"
"No," he replied., "its robbery. Or at least that's what I would charge him with as a prosecutor. Of course the defense would try to argue out of it, but I could make the case for robbery."
"But he didn't use force?"
"Legally, the threat of force is all that is needed for a robbery. The actual use of that force would be a separate charge. If I came at you with a knife and said, 'give me your wallet' and you did that is robbery. If I then stabbed you, that would be assault with a deadly weapon. If I actually killed you that would be murder. That's the way the law works. As a prosecutor I would actually charge you will all 3 plus possession of a deadly weapon, possession of stolen property, speeding, jaywalking and anything else I can think of."
I was fascinated by all this and kind of wish I became a lawyer. Its not that I am not smart enough, its just that I didn't have the time and money for law school and not all lawyers make the big bucks so you may not make it all back. My friend does well but as an Assistant DA he is not rolling in the dough either.
Anyway, I got to thinking about the robbery example. The threat of force is the same as force. So I went back to my example. "so if the robber didn't actually display a knife or make a threat how is that robbery?"
"Simple, you stated you were concerned by what he would do if you didn't give him your wallet. Even if he never made a threat, a reasonable person would assume that force would have been used had they not surrendered their wallet. My job as a prosecutor would be to convince a jury that the threat of force was used. The defense of course will try to convince the jury that he merely asked you for it and you surrendered it of your own free will out of the goodness of your heart. I actually had a case where the defense tried this trick and it didn't work. I got a conviction. Of course it helped that the guy was 6 foot and full of muscle and he seemed to only ask 100 pound weaklings and women. Too bad the last woman he asked was a cop. She produced her wallet for him and when he saw her badge he ran. Perhaps that is the real reason I got the conviction. True story."
OK, I know that many of you are following my blog because they like to read about a gown man being pulled over his wife's knees and being spanked on his bare bottom and are disappointed that I am not providing any wanking material for you ( it doesn't bother me if you "like" my stories in that way) , sorry, but all these things get me thinking.
Is my wife using force in a legal sense. I have admitted that I have not completely resisted as I am not sure exactly what would happen if I did. There is hardly any physical force other than the actual spanking itself and the pushing and pulling. The question I ask myself is what would happen if I was to simply not comply and tell her to get lost. I don't know and I am afraid to really find out. What force if any would she use? Would she simply just give up and they would end? While I would love to ask my lawyer friend (but I would never dare) if I can charge my wife with assault, I am not sure I want to, but I am curious. I don't want to get my wife in trouble but I am sure that if I actually made a complaint that my wife was spanking me without my consent I would have a hard time proving that this was anything other than sex play. I have searched high and low and so far I have not found a single credible story of a wife being charged with assault for spanking her husband. Oh sure, wifes punching kicking stabbing, there are plenty of stories like that. If my wife kicked me and I made a complaint to the police I am sure they would arrest her and believe me, but what would happen if I were to call the police to complain that my wife is spanking me? Would they laugh at me and tell me to just shut up and enjoy it? I know a lot of people enjoy being spanked so they assume that I would enjoy it to. Like I said, I have never heard of a story of a women being arrested for spanking her husband. Is this because I haven't found it yet or is it because no man would be willing to sign a complaint that he is being spanked? I know I am too scared to make a complaint and admit I was spanked. Even if I wasn't too embarrassed to make a complaint, I don't want my wife arrested. I love her. So she is spanking me and I am afraid not to submit. Is that implied consent? If I felt the same way and she took my wallet, then according to my friend that would be robbery.
I remain confused as ever.
I'll be the first to admit when I am wrong about something. Based on what I just read, I was wrong about my assumptions.
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly when I found this blog it was more of search for dialogue about domestic discipline and how others navigate these waters. So in spite of the authors repeated assertions to the contrary I assumed he liked or at least felt he was getting benefit from the dynamic.
There are some obvious clues in the latest post (e.g. searching high and low for other people who pressed charges against his wife for spanking, etc.) that he is serious, and that this is not just a little domestic discipline that he is looking for validation for from blogosphere that it is ok (run on sentence i know).
The challenge with the internet is always the same. How much do you really believe because there are a lot of people out there who get a thrill from pretending to be something that they are not.
That said the thoughtful nature of the comments and retelling of the dialogue with the lawyer compels me to believe what I am reading. It seems clear that the threat you are under that is getting you spanked is that she will divorce you if you do not submit. If it is truly as simple as that and you are getting your ass beat with a hair brush, hate it and are afraid to have confront her about it for fear of divorce then you are in an unhealthy marriage at best - in my opinion solely based on what you have provided.
I'll take a stab at one angle. What if she really believes you are submitting because she thinks you are in agreement that she is HOH and you know you need it? Moreover, she might be assuming that you are giving implied consent, as opposed to living under a threat of abandonment? I hope this is the case, because if she is forcing you into a spanking AND she knows you are only submitting because she knows you are terrified she will leave you than there is serious issues.
I assume you have not been married long. What I know about marriage is that people come together for lots of different reasons and are compatible for lots of different reasons. Some stay happily married under the pretenses they married under. Some do not. So either you will confront this issue and the many others ahead (like we all have), or you will get your ass spanked (and other forms of control) for as long as you are married. Eventually you will settle in and accept it, and she will accept her roll, or one or both of you will grow and evolve and than you confront the issue.
So. Turn off your computer, walk over to her and say "honey, I only submit to being spanked because I am living under the threat that you will divorce me, I hate it and resent you to the point where I have researched pressing charges for abuse". Then listen and report to us as to what she says.
I truly wish you well. Open, honest and transparent communication is almost always best in the end when it comes to spouses. Speaking form experience (I have been married 20 years) a good counselor can really help. Don't let things fester.
Take Care,
KL
Thanks KL,
DeleteJust re-read your comment in light of our last "Pillow Talk" First off, I talked to a lawyer out of curiosity. Since writing this I have been doing a lot of thinking and reflecting. There is no doubt that I have a submissive personality. I have come to accept this. As I have pointed out in replies to other comments and it bears repeating here, the spankings are actually a very small part of our marriage, but the quirk of it all is what drove me to blog about it.
Yes I am looking for feedback from the blogosphere and realize there are sexual fantasies at play here and a large group who get sexual pleasure from these types of relationships. It is clear my wife intends to continue to spank me when she feels I have earned it and I have decided that I will just have to live with it. I did plead with her to stop the spankings (see Pillow Talk) but those pleas did me no good. I am not wiling to divorce her over this but so long as this remains a small part of our marriage I will deal with it.
I agree with KL. I am a lawyer, though not a family or criminal lawyer. Were your wife attacking you, and beating you on a spur of the moment basis, there would be no doubt in my mind that you are in an abusive relationship and she is acting out crimes. Your situation, in my view is different. She has given you a spanking in cool reflection. Did she overpower you to spank you? That is a difficult proposition to see. Instead you act out of fear. You are afraid of forcing the issue for fear it means the end of your marriage. That reminds me of the saying " you are my friend so long as you do everything I like." If you do not want to be spanked, tell her. Not in the heat of the moment. Sit down on the couch and explain that she is not to hit you again. If she resists, you need to leave. You have an irreconcilable difference.
ReplyDeleteHi Please see my reply to KL above. I know that I can leave, but for now I don't see that as necessary. Certainly if things change I will do what I have to do.
DeleteI agree with KL. But I suppose a case could be made that if a grown man is unwilling to decide for himself whether his spankings from his wife are consensual, he probably deserves a sound spanking! :)
ReplyDeleteShould marital spankings be consensual? ... on an ongoing basis? Absolutely, but what constitutes consent is for the individuals involved to decide. It will not be the same for every couple. In some cases there might be an element that from the outside appears partially coercive, including in your case, but that is not for outsiders to decide. And even if there is an element of coercion, that does not automatically mean consent has not been given.
Doug
Passive consent perhaps? There are many implying that by not storming out or telling her off I am consenting.
DeleteYou are no more consenting than a battered woman is who hates what her husband is doing to her but is too afraid to tell him. But you do need to tell your wife your real feelings about being spanked by her. I agree with everything KL says except his recommendation for what you do next. I think that if you immediately confront your wife, the outcome is unlikely to be what you want. You need to have thought through exactly what you're going to say to her and how you will deal with her likely response. It's clear that she is a much stronger person than you. It would be a good idea for you to discuss your strategy with a professional therapist/counselor.
ReplyDeleteWP
Perhaps it is perception. For me the battered woman is the woman with the drunken uncaring husband who beats her in angry for every little things that annoys him.
DeleteOther than the occasional spanking we have a happy healthy relationship, perhaps that is a point that I failed to make.
KL put it very nicely and was very informative. And they are absolutely right in what they wrote as well as the other comments here as well.
ReplyDeleteIf you've read my blog which you say you have then you've seen where if I've said it once I've said it a hundred times that communication is the key. Not just with the spanking but with everything in life. Relationships are built on communication, trust and respect for one another. You take any one of those out of the equation and you don't have a very good relationship.
You know in my case I'm giving Bob what he asked for and feels he needs. He may not enjoy the actual spanking but he feels he benefits from it and needs it. But again this was something he asked for by communicating to me. We had several long discussions about it before I started laying out each others expectations and such. And that communication has never stopped because as I said it's the key to making it work.
As in Bob's case I think spanking has been very beneficial for him but that's because we are both in agreement and know what each other expects. And I've said it before in my blog if both partners aren't in agreement then I don't feel the spanking is going to be effective. You should never force something on someone just because you want it nor should someone have to take something for that reason. And that applies to anything not just spanking because that would constitute abuse in my opinion.
So to me it sounds like you and your wife need to sit down and have some very serious conversations about what you want out of your relationship. You need to be honest with each other and not let fear be a motivating factor in those conversations. You need to talk to the person who is the source of your confusion and stop looking for answers elsewhere when the answer to all your questions is right there living in your house.
Dianne
As you can see the conversation has begun. The threat of spankings remain, but for now at least we are talking about it.
Delete